Darryl: Hello and welcome to My Bloody Website, the show where we talk all things online for small and medium business owners or executives who still refer to Their Bloody Website. I'm Darryl King.
Edmund: And I'm Edmund Pelgen.
Darryl: Okay, welcome. This is episode one, and the big question, why are we here? Why have we set up My Bloody Website podcast?
Edmund: Absolutely, Darryl. Tell, me why do we need another podcast about websites and online marketing?
Darryl: Well, maybe we don't. Maybe we're just going to talk to ourselves. But you know what, we've both been doing this a long time. Being in the online space myself since the mid-90s, yourself around the same time, and it's 2017 and here we are. Every day we're out there talking to this audience of small/medium business owners. They don't necessarily have a massive marketing team. They don't have a massive [inaudible 00:00:47] team. They might have their web guy and they might have their agency doing some online stuff and a lot of them don't have that. They're not investing in it, and we're finding that a lot of these people are just stumbling. When we get called in on something we've got to look at a site or look at an app and we find that they're just doing stuff wrong, fundamental stuff wrong.
Edmund: But it's not even just -
Edmund: It's not even just them. The challenge or the frustration that I'm seeing is that a lot of the people that you would expect to know better are still making very fundamental mistakes. Everyone's chasing all the fancy, shiny objects, but the fundamentals are still broken.
Darryl: You raise a good point because there's a lot of- In the advent of social media in the last decade. These days you can't miss guru teaching and guru this and everything else that's going online about any of- the latest tactic and I'd qualify it as being as tactics. Quite often- and I know I've stumbled across sites that tactically got a squeeze page or they've got this or they've got that, but the fundamentals of the rest of what they're doing aren't there. So people are jumping, I think, onto well, that sounds like a good idea. Hey, I've got a problem. This doesn't help to identify the problem, I'm going to employ the tactic, but it's like that old fable about when you build your house on the rocks or whatever.
Edmund: Yeah, on the sand-
Darryl: The worst of it. A lot of the fundamentals just aren't done right. An example, just last week an agency ... Well, they call themselves an agency. I don't know that they're a digital agency, but they were rolling out websites for people and these websites had been up for 18 months and so the first thing I looked for is okay, what's your Google analytics account, or any form of analytics. There was nothing there, so it's even simple things like that. What are some of the examples that you see day to day?
Edmund: Look, I still see, like you said, slow sites. I still see old school SEO, I still see aggressive over-optimization. Just really dodgy things that you've moved on from. You know what I think, I think it'd be really great to tell people what specifically- I mean, you started it with this discussion asking me what I know. What are we gonna talk about in this and future episodes?
Darryl: Well, I think that's a good point, and you talked about things like old school SEO and I'd call you old school. You've been around a while, fella, but I think that's the point. So we're not just- It's not a digital marketing podcast, per se. What we're going to cover is we're going to look at the entity, the business entity, or entities which are websites and social media profiles, we're going to talk about sides of the thing, so we're going to talk about the marketing in a digital world and hey, we'll probably touch on some offline stuff as well because it matters.
We're going to look at the design, the development, strategic goals, planning, how to understand stuff in layman's terms because we've been in the industry a long time. A lot of people in the industry talk- The acronyms and the buzzwords and all that bullshit that we hear day in, day out. The reality is we would like to provide valuable insights and information and particularly at least one actionable tip every episode that someone that is going, "Oh god, my bloody website still doesn't work," or "I don't get any inquiries," or I'm sick of this, I'm sick of that. They could say, "You know what, I can do this one thing." In the next seven days, I can do this one thing, I can hand it to someone in my company, I can talk to my web guy, I can talk to my ... Whatever, and so we could do that. Generally, we have this thing on our site. I can run this test and see that I've got a problem.
Edmund: Exactly, and what you just raised there- The whole idea for this podcast is not to say you need to learn how to do this yourself. I think the key is understanding what's important, how to identify the issue, and then ask someone hey, are you aware of this, can we fix this. Getting the right help.
Darryl: Yeah. I was thinking about that the other day in a meeting. Confusion and misinformation is rife and a lot of business owners will say in a meeting, "My SEO is happening and my AdWords," and stuff like that and they'll talk about them in the same breath and they refer to everything as their SEO. They might be running some Google AdWords, they might be running some paid ads across social and they're paying someone, in theory, to be doing some search optimization, some organic optimization, but they're also being sold packages by tally sales and all sorts of other methods that are mixing the language as well. That confusion and misinformation, so a lot of it is hopefully to just pull it apart.
Darryl: Understand what this is and everyone making smart decisions. Are we getting results, are the people that we're using empowering business people to have better dialogue with their providers to get better results.
Edmund: And speaking of providers, I think it's really important that we mention in this podcast that this is not about bashing providers.
Edmund: I want this podcast to be friendly for providers, being web designers and SEO people and all that sort of stuff because we all started somewhere and I think the key thing about working in this space is you need to have humility and recognize that you don't know all the answers but you need to have an open mind and you need to be willing to learn, and some people are at the beginning of their journey and there are some real old school people that I learn from everyday. It's key that everyone shares and is coming at this with an attitude of let's do better. Let's try to improve what's the best outcome for the customer, so this is not about bashing anyone. It's about helping everyone, right?
Darryl: You're right, and I think that the key thing there is you and I both know on all the projects you worked on everyone makes mistakes. Things get through the cracks, but the point of it all, too, is that a lot of people- and for the agency and the developers is there's a tendency that it's very easy for us to get defensive and be the fountain of knowledge and create barriers with clients and oh, we'll just do that for you, versus the method of helping educate them, because at the end of the day- Here's the thing, a rising tide lifts all boats. How to educate our clients better, then websites like Clients From Hell don't have to exist. If our clients- If the people that we're trying to serve or we should be serving have more information, can make better decisions, they should be able to work with you and your agency or as a freelancer better. A lot of people don't get why they have conflict in these relationships, and quite often it's because both sides aren't seeing the other side and I think if you shine a torch on it and have them go, "You know what, as the agency we'd better hit up their butt a little bit. We're being a little bit [inaudible 00:07:44] or whatever."
Darryl: As a client- Or actually, I don't want to deal with a client that doesn't want to learn a little bit, and you said it earlier, it's not about the client being the technical hands-on. Hats off to you if you want to do it. There's a lot of resources to teach you. I don't know that we'll get to that level, but if someone has marketing out there in the world we should be past the mindset of I don't know what the ROI- what the return on investment is. I've gotta know. We're not in a world where- I'll pull the TV out and I think we got more sales last month but it's gonna take 30 days for me to get the report. We're not in that world anymore, but people are still having the hood pulled over their eyes. They're not being told, "You don't have analytics on your site. It's fundamental."
Darryl: If you're running paid ads and you don't have that or if you've got a website, I mean, you can't tell if any of your effort's working then you need to know that I should've looked for that. You don't have to know how to implement it. You pay someone to do it, but you need to know hey, where's my stats. I want to see a report every month and I don't want to log in, is there a way that you could email them for- You know what, there is. That sort of stuff where we can inform people that they can be better on both sides and hopefully we'll get better as well from questions and talking-
Edmund: Absolutely. Speaking of which, why should people listen to us?
Darryl: Well, because it's gonna be interesting, Ed.
Darryl: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think there's two answers there. One is what are all the things out there in the world and the second part maybe who we are, and I'll introduce you a little bit, you can do the same to you. So where do we start? Ed's been involved in online marketing for over 20 years. Used to be a partner in quite a large Australian digital agency and has been involved in many things. SEO and paid marketing, content marketing for that period of time. He's spoken in Australia numerous times at Search Marketing Summit down in Sydney and Melbourne and other places as well. There's a lot of workshops and things that he's conducted, and I consider you a friend to small and medium businesses. You go out- You work with some big stuff as well, obviously we won't talk about that so much, but you know, it's a different challenge. I think you understand it. Prior to that you were in small business yourself, which drove you to find out how to do stuff. I've read your bio and you can read that there [inaudible 00:10:11]. I think you understand that challenge about that, so that's why I think people should listen to what you have to say because you try to help people be a little bit better everyday with their online marketing.
Edmund: Yeah. Mate, I appreciate that. That's a wonderful intro. Now I've gotta try to live- just as good for yours. I met Darryl at SMX in Sydney and I looked up onstage and Darryl was speaking about one of these big web projects that he built, but Darryl has been running one of the largest web design agencies for many years- what, 18 years, Darryl, we're coming up to?
Darryl: 21, I think.
Edmund: 21 years Darryl's been-
Darryl: Not so large anymore.
Edmund: Well, it's a lifestyle choice, but Darryl's worked with really big companies, really big teams. Some of the largest companies in Australia building out website infrastructure. He's also owned and run his own hosting company in Australia, so what's always impressed me about Darryl is his level of practical understanding of all the underlying infrastructure and design issues about building websites. I've brought him into numerous meetings with clients where the conversations we've had about why they're doing what they do, how to build a website that serves their customers, and it's just been massively insightful and I've never heard that before, and so sometimes when I walk into a room with Darryl I feel like the teenager walking in with the teacher and I learn something every day. I think that's the key thing in this industry is just to expose yourself and surround yourself with people who are experienced, who are open to learning, and who are open to sharing, and that's Darryl. I think you should all listen, and that's why you should listen to Darryl. Is that a good enough-
Darryl: Thank you, mate. You've waxed lyrical too much. I think you've painted me up there, but we both worked on projects for a long time and sometimes projects are restricted by client budgets or internal politics or whatever it might be. Not every project you do is an end result, and we understand that as well. I think there's a lot of stuff why it's important, but I think we both got a little frustrated and we talked about lifestyle choices. So I have more of a boutique agency now and we work on very specific projects we want to but still come across these things where people are challenged with not getting the right information to help them make smart decisions. The world around us keeps changing and it keeps accelerating and we deal with clients overseas, we deal with them here in Australia. Even just locally we're about to see the retail landscape change dramatically. No one saw it coming.
Edmund: Oh, yeah.
Darryl: Yeah, there's just one piece and lots of things that are changing. More and more people are crossing that chasm and starting to uptake using digital technology in lots of new ways, not just broadcast spam on social or whatever, but they're actually looking at it and saying I can run my business better. I can run remote teams. I can have- I can sell stuff everywhere even though I've only got one store up here Brisvegas or somewhere. So they're embracing it more but they're still challenged by actually how do I do it. I don't have 47 people. I don't have 12 people. I don't have a UX designer and an SEO and a copywriter. I don't have all those people. What I've got is a whole bunch of people fulfilling the logistics and retail and we're sitting at the top and I want advice. There's a lot more competitors coming. The barrier to entry is going down, so we have to laugh about in the early days' online search. How you could bank anywhere within three days.
Edmund: Good old days.
Darryl: Yeah. All right, get out of that sandbox and rinse your butts. But competitors now can bring up a website, make themselves look fantastic, do all the stuff right and be ahead of you, and you can have 12 years of history doing business at a website for eight years or an online ad campaign running and they just do it better and they just steal your business. So you have to know to be aware, and then there's all the other stuff. The next episode we're gonna talk about it gonna talk about something that's being thrust on everyone, which is about security. SSL certificates and https for websites. We won't go into that, but there's a lot of stuff being driven around changing how things are run online, and that's mobile first in everything. Mobile first in design. Everyone uses these phones all the time and yet a lot of people make decisions based on desktop or some other parameters. Mobile first indexing for search and people are going, "I don't even know what that is," but what's the impact? How do I need to understand it? And then the breakthrough stuff where you could advertise. There's a lot of different things I think people-
Edmund: And we're talking about all those in the episodes ahead, right?
Darryl: Yeah, not today.
Edmund: All right. Look, I think that's it for the day. I mean, what do you reckon? We've intro'd the podcast, we told people what it's about.
Darryl: Yeah. I mean, I think come back next week. I suppose that's the other thing, our goal is we want to put up weekly episodes, we want to put out some topics that matter where we're going to polling and surveying the people we know and work with to get the questions they want answered. We've got a bit of a run we want to get through. Yeah, I think that's the thing. We want a weekly podcast. Come back, we're trying to keep them around the 20-minute mark. Not too techy, not too over-the-top. If there's a great thing we've gotta talk about that might stretch longer, a half an hour or so, but you can do something with them.
Edmund: Awesome. Look, I think that's it for the day. If you want to be notified when the next episode goes live just sign up to notifications on our website, which is mybloodypodcastwebsite.com or just subscribe to us on iTunes, please, and if you like the content that you're listening to we would greatly appreciate it if you left us a great, positive review. It really helps other people find the podcast. That's it. It's goodbye from me.
Darryl: And it's goodbye from him.